JOB MARKET
By Marilyn Dickey
When employees started leaving one department of a West Coast arts organization in droves, it was hard to convince the charity’s leaders that a top supervisor was part of the reason why.
The supervisor had the esteem of the group’s administration, says its human-resources manager (whose name, and the name of her charity, are withheld to shield the supervisor’s identity and privacy). But in that department, she adds, “we lost 11 people in one year -- out of 14 -- so it was a real revolving door.”
As the exodus unfolded, the human-resources manager conducted exit interviews with each worker, as she does routinely when employees leave. She heard, she says, a parade of unhappy stories about working for this supervisor. “We found that there was a poisonous atmosphere,” the human-resources manager says. “Her relationship with employees was just deadly. She was constantly demeaning people for doing things differently than she would do.” Even so, says the human-resources manager, she had a tough time persuading the group’s president to take action.
Eventually, though, her argument that the group’s reputation would be tarnished if turnover remained so high proved persuasive. The supervisor was asked to leave, and the drain on the department stopped. “The exit interviews,” the human-resources manager notes, “were what really tipped the balance.”
Some nonprofit groups swear by the ritual of interviewing staff members as they leave an organization, saying it is the best time to get honest answers about their experience there. Departing employees have nothing to lose at that point, they say, and the organization can gain some valuable insights. Proponents say that people are more forthcoming in exit interviews than they are at performance reviews. But detractors counter that workers are seldom completely truthful about their experience with an employer, even when they are leaving, and some may say things just to let off steam. Others point out that exit interviews can create legal obligations for the organization -- for example, if a departing worker claims to have been sexually harassed.
Typical questions during an exit interview concern why the employee is leaving and, if he or she is leaving for another job, what makes the new job more appealing. At Greenlights for NonProfit Success, a nonprofit group that offers management consulting in Austin, Tex., departing staff members are also asked how they had felt about their workload, chances for advancement, and pay, as well as whether they would recommend the organization to a friend.
Not many charities conduct exit interviews, says Charley Ravine, director of legal and human resources services at the Management Assistance Program for Nonprofits, in St. Paul. But he believes having some kind of talk with departing employees can be a useful exercise when done properly: “The organization can learn a lot of information -- and it may be cathartic for the person who’s leaving.”
A cardinal rule of such interviews is that they be confidential, says the human-resources manager from the West Coast arts group. When exiting employees told her about the problems they had had with their supervisor, she always asked, “Do you mind if I share this with the president?”
Gaining Insight
Danielle M. Smothers says exit interviews at the National Breast Cancer Coalition, an advocacy organization in Washington, have led to more precise job descriptions. As the coalition’s human-resources associate, Ms. Smothers gives both written and oral exit interviews to all departing employees except senior staff members and workers who have been fired. She found that several staff members said they had accepted their jobs without a full understanding of what their duties would be. As a result of their comments, department managers have revised position descriptions so workers better understand their duties when they are hired or given new assignments.
When Greenlights for NonProfit Success found out in exit interviews that people were leaving for jobs with better pay, it prompted the organization to adjust its salary structure. “We did a survey comparing our salaries against other groups that were retaining people more,” says Deborah Edward, Greenlights’ executive director.
Exit interviews led Jenny Hansell, executive director of the North East Community Center, in Millerton, N.Y., which provides educational and recreational programs for local residents, to take a closer look at her management skills. When a disgruntled AmeriCorps volunteer sat for an exit interview upon leaving the center a year ago, Ms. Hansell got an earful.
The volunteer “had come at a time when we were having a budget crunch,” says Ms. Hansell. “My program director had left, and we thought we couldn’t afford to hire another one. [The volunteer] was supposed to report to the program director and there wasn’t one, and she was expected to create a program and run it, and I was halfway out the door on maternity leave. I left her in limbo.”
Ms. Hansell doesn’t blame herself entirely, she says, because the circumstances were difficult. “I didn’t have that many years of experience as a supervisor,” she says. “I didn’t know how involved to be, how many questions to ask, how much to hang over her shoulder, figuring out what she needed. In her case, I wasn’t as involved as I should have been.”
Ms. Hansell says she has learned a lot about managing her staff since then: “I think if she came here now, she’d barely recognize the place.”
Picking an Interviewer
A key to getting the most out of an exit interview is setting the right tone -- and that means, in part, finding the appropriate interviewer, says Jacqueline J. Hill, a human-resources consultant who is also an adjunct faculty member at the Center for Nonprofit Management at the University of St. Thomas, in Minneapolis.
“Typically, the supervisor is not the best person, for reasons of candor and confidentiality,” Ms. Hill says. “If you have a human-resources person, that would be a logical player.”
If an organization is so small that no one on staff is appropriate to fill the bill, then getting an outside interviewer might be right, she adds. Another option, she says, is to ask the departing employee to submit their thoughts in writing instead of orally.
As much as possible, it is best to have the same person conduct the majority of exit interviews, says Rick Hobish executive director, of Pro Bono Partnership, a charity in White Plains, N.Y., that provides legal help for nonprofit organizations. “You want it centralized because you want consistency -- not off-the-cuff, but in a disciplined manner.”
Some organizations don’t conduct exit interviews because they say they don’t have time, Ms. Hill says. But bypassing the chance for feedback can be “a false economy,” she says, particularly at charities that invest a lot of time and money in training new employees. Such groups, she says, have a particularly strong interest in keeping turnover low, and exit interviews can help.
The chance to give feedback in exit interviews, she says, can also make employees feel valued: “The way you treat people comes back in terms of how you’re viewed in the community and whether other people are going to want to apply for a job there.”
The Case for Keeping Quiet
Not everybody shares that enthusiasm for exit interviews -- at least, not in every case. “Exit interviews could be viewed as a mixed bag,” says Mr. Hobish.
On the one hand, he says, “it’s obviously a wonderful opportunity for nonprofits who are losing an employee.” On the other hand, he says, if a departing worker raises an issue of discrimination, that accusation needs to be investigated immediately because the organization has now been put on notice that someone has a potential legal dispute.
There is no legal statute that compels an employer to investigate when a departing employee claims discrimination, Mr. Hobish says. But if the organization investigates thoroughly and promptly, it can take steps to prevent the problem from reoccuring, and can go a long way toward minimizing the group’s exposure to liability.
The decision whether to conduct an internal investigation or to turn the matter over to an outside investigator depends upon the situation, he adds. If, for example, the accused person is the one who would usually be conducting the inquiry, outside help is warranted.
In the case of any exit interview, Mr. Hobish says, the staff member doing the interviewing needs to handle the conversation with utmost care. Otherwise, an interviewer could slip up and raise an issue that wasn’t a problem before, such as implying that the employee was being let go because of his or her age.
For the most part, though, Mr. Hobish says, the benefits of doing exit interviews are for the employer. “What is in it for the employee?” he asks. “Not a whole lot, except for the chance to improve the environment for fellow employees.”
Jane Garthson, a Toronto leadership consultant who works with charities, sees exit interviews as a good way to hold on to current and future staff members and to streamline productivity, but she also understands why some departing employees hesitate to agree to an interview.
Departing workers might worry about leaving on a sour note, she says, because they still rely on former employers for references and because they might want to return to the organization either as an employee or as a volunteer. If they do want to vent frustrations as they head out the door, Ms. Garthson advises that they word the criticism constructively, suggesting ways to improve the organization rather than complaining about things that took place.
Some recruiters, though, dismiss the entire notion of an exit interview, citing the risks to the departing employee. To Nick A. Corcodilos, author of Ask The Headhunter: Reinventing the Interview to Win the Job, (Plume, 1997, $14.95), exit interviews are “absolutely a bad idea.”
An employee can leave on good terms and say wonderful things about the organization during the exit interview, he says. But what if the final paycheck never arrives, or what if the organization later accuses the employee of stealing something or acting inappropriately on the job? “You could get dragged into court, and your wonderful, upbeat comments may be used against you,” he says. “The odds are minuscule, but if you find yourself in that position, the comments you made on your way out the door could come back and bite you.”
Departing workers, he says, should politely and respectfully decline the opportunity for one last heart-to-heart with the boss. “My advice,” he says, “is keep your mouth shut.”
Does your organization do exit interviews with department employees? Why or why not? Share your policy -- and its effect on how your charity operates -- in the Job Market online forum.
