Following are excerpts from interviews conducted with Sen. John McCain and Sen. Barack Obama at a forum held in New York by ServiceNation, a coalition of organizations seeking to promote expansion of volunteer efforts. The interviews were conducted by Richard Stengel, editor of Time magazine, and Judy Woodruff, a senior correspondent for PBS’s NewsHour With Jim Lehrer.
What is the role of charity vs. government?
Senator McCain: The role of government obviously is the primary role, to protect our citizens and help them in times of emergency and distress. But also, I think there’s a great role for faith-based organizations, volunteer organizations, and the private sector.
I think we’ve got to involve more businesses and industries that routinely provide goods and services rather than rely on the federal government to do it. I don’t think, frankly, if FedEx or Target or one of these organizations had been in charge, we would have had a truck full of ice ending up in Maine [during the 2005 Gulf Coast relief effort]. They know where everything is. So we need to have that partnership.
But I also want to point out that faith-based organizations, as well as other volunteer organizations, did a magnificent job [in responding to Hurricane Katrina].
I also want to emphasize there, [service programs] do not always have to be run by the government. That’s why we also ought to understand that faith-based organizations, other volunteer organizations that are completely separate from the government, have nothing to do with the government, are amongst the most successful.
So let’s not get entrapped by the idea that the government has to run these voluntary organizations and volunteer kinds of programs, because a lot of times the job can be done better with our encouragement.
We have a distinct government role — the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, all of these other organizations. But I want to be careful about expanding it when my philosophy is, Let’s not have government do things that the private sector can do, or other organizations can do.
Government can’t do it all. The essence of volunteerism starts at the grass-roots level, does not start necessarily at the federal-government level. So let’s make sure we maintain the balance between federal involvement and encouragement of volunteerism and service to the nation, but also, let’s not in any way stifle what already is going on and is very, very successful in America. And that’s organizations that have no dependence whatsoever on our federal government and do such a great job for all of our citizens.
Senator Obama: The fact is that we have to have government. When a hurricane strikes, as it did with Katrina, we have to have a FEMA [Federal Emergency Management Agency] that works — which by the way, means that we should be encouraging young people, the best and the brightest, to get involved as civil servants, to pursue careers of public service so we’ve got people who are trained in federal emergency management who are able to take on the job.
Now, that does not crowd out the Red Cross.
That doesn’t crowd out the thousands of church groups that went down there. What it means is that each area has a role to play.
The Peace Corps does not crowd out opportunities for service overseas.
You’ve got churches and synagogues and mosques all across the country that are deeply involved in efforts to deal with HIV/AIDS and malaria and all sorts of public-health issues.
Yet, this is an area where George Bush appropriately said we’re going to make a commitment as the wealthiest nation on earth to deal with the devastation of AIDS, and his Pepfar [President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief] program has been highly successful, working with not-for-profits, working with governments, working with both public and private in order to solve the problems.
So there are more than enough problems out there to deal with. And we don’t need to set up bureaucracy.
I would distinguish between a government assist in providing people avenues for service and a government bureaucracy in which the notion is that the only way you can serve is through some defined government program.
Should people of modest means be paid to volunteer?
Senator McCain: First of all, my experience has not been that the wealthiest people do the most volunteering. In fact, I think it is average citizens that do the most, in all due respect to rich people.
But the point, it seems to me, it’s the average citizen that’s the first to respond. If someone graduates from a fine institution or university, then we hope that the people that hire them would give them additional time to maybe go down and volunteer in a Habitat for Humanity or some other worthwhile cause.
But honestly, you know what I found?
The busiest people are the busiest, and the busier they get, the busier they get, and the more time they find to help their neighborhood, their community, and their fellow citizens.
You want to be careful that the reason is not the reward of financial or other reasons, but the reward is the satisfaction of serving a cause greater than yourself.
Senator Obama: Income does not determine whether or not people serve. You can go into small rural towns and people are really scraping by, and yet they are helping each other in all sorts of ways.
But the choices that we provide young people right now are too constrained.
When I graduated from Columbia, I had a choice. I could pursue a lucrative career on Wall Street or go immediately to law school, or I could try to work in the community.
And I chose the latter, but it was tough. I made $12,000 a year plus car expenses in Chicago, working with churches to set up job-training programs for the unemployed and after-school programs for youth, trying to make the community better.
It was the best education I ever had.
But ironically, it was harder for me to find that job than it was for me to find a job on Wall Street. And I think there are a lot of young people out there who are interested in making that same choice, and we should be encouraging them. The government’s going to have a role.
Should national service be compulsory?
Senator McCain: I don’t think so. When you compel someone to do something, then you basically are in contradiction to the fundamental principle of having people wanting to serve and willing and eager to serve.
Americans are eager to serve. When we look at all of the programs that we made available, almost all of them, in fact, all of them are oversubscribed by people who are volunteering. What’s probably one of the lead organizations in America today? It’s Teach for America, where thousands more are seeking to be part of that program, to go in the inner cities of America and teach children.
What role does service play in the United States?
Senator Obama: Part of what makes America work is the fact that we believe in individual responsibility and self-reliance, but we also believe in mutual responsibility, in neighborliness, in a sense that we are committed to something larger than ourselves.
Now, that can express itself in a whole range of ways, but what has built this country is people sense, through voluntary associations, but also through public service in government, that we have commitments that extend beyond our immediate self-interest, that aren’t always motivated by profit, that aren’t simply short-term, that we’re thinking long-term, to the next generation.
Every bit of progress that we’ve made historically is because of that kind of active citizenship.
One way of making sure that we encourage this kind of citizenship is to start early, to make sure that our young people in high school have community-service opportunities. Making sure that our university students, in exchange for making college affordable, are giving something back. In underserved communities, that they are teaching, that they are working in hospitals that need help.
Should spending on national service be increased?
Senator McCain: I’d be glad to spend money. I don’t think that should be the first priority in the kinds of benefits that are reaped from the kind of thing we’re trying to seek.
Should national service be a cabinet-level department?
Senator McCain: Right now there’s an office in the White House, Freedom Corps Office. That office coordinates all these different organizations, which, rightly or wrongly, fall many times under different departments. I think if you have that person right down the hall from the Oval Office and you’re working with that person on a daily basis, that’s probably the most effective way to do it.
What can be done to encourage older people to serve?
Senator McCain: There are obviously organizations that we have in place for ability to serve, but we ought to really probably do a more effective job of utilizing the talents and experience of people who have had very successful lives and careers, and continue to motivate them to serve.
And we do have the Senior Corps and other organizations. But the fact is that people are living longer and they’re more active and vigorous, and I really believe that that is one of the underutilized aspects of community service in America.
Will labor unions block plans to encourage national service?
Senator Obama: I don’t think so. Look, the spirit of unions is coming together because we are stronger together than we are individually. That’s the idea behind the union movement.
People recognize, for example, that we can’t continue an education system that fails so many of our young people. And we need an all-hands-on-deck approach.
And I think not only teachers’ unions, but teachers themselves, recognize that if there are volunteers, if we have got retirees who are scientists and mathematicians, who are willing to come in the classrooms and provide additional help to young people and inspire them into different careers, they’re going to welcome it.